| Archive for purgatory.myfreeforum.org Maelstrom LRP Forum for Eidolons |
| Illithidbix |
The fucking ritual site issue.Right: Maelstrom is awesome, and this I think we all agree on.However I think if there is one niggle that for the greater or lesser extent is causing almost all of us some grief one way or another it's this one: Ritual sites, more specifically people hosting without them. (There was a long and heated verbal Spaff fest on the issue half a year ago: http://forums.rule7.co.uk/Topic8461-37-1.aspx and I've posted a recent post which I expect will cause a few fireworks http://forums.rule7.co.uk/FindPost22506.aspx ) My position on it can be summed up from a previous thread: Having found the sit back and wait attitude not being very fruitful, and the fact that slapping the Eidolons with their ming doesn't work, many lammiehumpers got frustrated. Then they found the near-perfect solution: Don't host with a ritual site. Without having to do anything, they had suddenly made the Fallen and undead muggerwock's lives so much harder as it greatly impeded upon their respawning abilities. Eventually most of the Fallen and undead retire out of simply not being able to play their characters in uptime. However from an IC perspective... by not having a ritual circle at the big gatherings all you do is move the problem to the nearest settlement by the ritual site and away from the hordes of angels and militant templar types who attending the gathering and who are best equipped and motivated to keep them under wraps in the entire world. Also, being 30 miles away in no way actually causes problems for an Eidolon or undead, aside from not being able to perform any business at the meeting. Hence Muggerwocks feel pissed off and cheated as Fallen retire due to OC boredom, rather than any actual IC action. Not having a ritual site fundamentally screws up the game for Fallen and Undead players, in a way that is fundamentally an OC issue rather than an IC issue. It doesn't screw over their characters, it makes the game less fun for the players. Fundamentally, when all is said and done, LARP is a game, and my opinion there is no point playing a game unless it's fun. The lack of a ritual site does mean I get a chance to sit and relax, and discuss things without the constant worry of being ninjed out of existence at any moment. Which can be nice, however fundamentally I play Varas to conflict with the Fallen, one way or another. This is very hard to do when they're not there. However it ruins my game when I speak to my IC enemies (and OC friends) after time out and find out they've had a shit event (by Maelstrom standards of course). It ruins my game knowing that every time I spot and smite a gribbly, there is a big chance that it'll screw their event up as they'll have to deal with the OC crap of playing a secondary for the majority of the rest of the event. However I don't want to compromise my character because of that issue, and I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) the Fallen players like having Varas around 'cus he doesn't just splat them a few times then wanders off and ignores them because he has other stuff to do/can't be assed. Varas picks a fight then sticks at it and then makes a point to insult them when they're down. Lukewarm, sometimes smiting Varas, just wouldn't be Varas. A good enemy you can have personal bile against is something relatively rare, esp when you're targeted by so many people. I've been pushed my point of view very aggressively, however I'm also aware this might not be doing “the cause” very much good, certainly accusing people of being metagamers might be a tad too far. I suspect that I've already made Andy Raff slightly irate over the issue (although Andy Raff seems to irate as a base state anyway) I'm also fully aware that there are around 800 odd players who regularly attend Maelstrom, most of them aren't very much involved in the religious game, and certainly not the “Smitefest 1657” subsection. Part of the reason maelstrom is so good is that there are so many different characters all perusing their own goals, which makes it feel like a real, vibrant world. I can also see perhaps from someone not involved in the Eidolon game that not having the ritual site would seem to be a very valid IC response to avoiding a small Holy War on your lands. And perhaps wouldn't see why we have such a gripe with it. “You play immortals! Surely that's enough of an advantage...” For many people, it's a purely IC issue. If we want ritual sites at events, we should petition the potential hosts for (which I incidentally have been), however there's a practical limitation to certain people trying this. Should the Fallen and Undead just console themselves with the fact that they should be sneaky, covert and avoid detection? There has been some very good arguments both ways. I am also aware that on this issue I've got emotional bias due to seeing my friends somewhat despondent over the issue and that so in my view it's a matter of LARP crossing the boundary of "fun" into "unfun". So, should we make a noise, or have we done that enough and now just grit our teeth and bare it? |
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| Ezhno Ohanzee |
As one the primary organisers to host the first event without a ritual site (Initiation). I want to say that us hosting the event without one had largely nothing to do with Fallen and Undead but rather *other* IC reasons, plus, all previously mentioned IC consequences were considered (the Fallen popping out next to a undefended village) . Neither did we realise how crippling it would be a for them. I personally feel bad as I often think I'm responsible for creating a band wagon for people to jump on, as, like I said previously, the lack of our ritual site had largely nothing to do with Fallen or Undead, wish I could go into it more, but its all IC knoledge I don't want to go into. | ||||
| Illithidbix |
Actually, I seemed to recall Flail and Co seemed to cope fine (from my POV) without the presence of the ritual site (not sure how, but they managed).
Indeed I know a certain Fallen benefited rather well from the lack of it... Also, I wouldn't have viewed you as starting a bandwagon, as the two events following initiations had them. It only became an issue at Foundations and Matrimony. (Perhaps it only became a real problem along with the anti-fallen ethos which became very present afterwards) I think it was noticeable then when it was actually perhaps thought of as a "solution". |
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| Bacon |
I'm always working IC on getting ritual sites to events. Loyal Eidolons need them too y'know, if we want to play with our Theurges as well.
We're researching some interesting new ideas that are pretty FOIP, and of course using good ol' blackmail and violence. The only difficulty I can see with Ritual sites is that everyone remembers being told that a ritual site will magically appear whenever large numbers of people meet on holy days, yet none ever do... |
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| OFT |
I agree with the first part, but I'd say its still an IC issue and there are plenty of IC ways to deal with it. Without straying into FOIP areas, the easiest way to help ensure a 'ritual friendly' group hosts or if the host is already chosen, apply pressure on them to have one. Obviously somegroups are just going to be hostile toward you from the get go, so you might need to use an intermedary group, like a colony or trade house you can manipulate into thinking its a good idea. And whats more fun than manipulating people? One thing i'd like to ask those who have been stuck at a ritual site several days from the event, have you asked a ref if you could burn the local village to the ground ? I keep hearing the threat of riotous Undead and Eidolons, but no one as yet seems to have done it, I was just curious if PD had said no, 'cause frankly next time it happens you should really do it.
It does and it doesn't, but also being screwed over can make the game more fun, especially as apparently there is a ritual site at the next game, so now all you hard done by fallen can go and speak to the organisers of the last three events and explain to them in specific detail why they ought to have had one. 
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| admin |
PD ruling no RP off site, was the last responce I had to this question. | ||||
| OFT |
So for OC reasons its a hollow threat 
Man thats poor. I surpose in a way its to stop groups attacking each others colonies while people are attending the festival, but for those of you 'removed' from site its a pretty rubbish. There's an argument there to be taken up with PD, in that by placing the ritual site outside of the festival, they have by there own actions brought that area of the map into play. Theres nothing even to say you'd automatically win either, grab some players and crew to play villagers/guards and RP the battle. |
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| Illithidbix |
Technically the mechanism already exists in the system. It's the sabotage and attack downtime actions. However this involves actually knowing where you are, and the nearest village is on the downtime system, which I've never managed to do.
(technically I can't actually move to the place where Discourse is held... also I appear to have spent at least one season in a patch of featureless sea 10 miles off the new flembic coast... I was training people there and everything) |
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| Requiem |
Attending Discourse involved TIME TRAVEL in my case. |
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| Aestar |
Funny, I'm sure I've seen that exact same eidolon walk past twice now. There's been a glitch in the maelstrom! Shit, we need an exit! *cue computer game style fight music* |
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| ReadTheSmallPrint |
Im pretty sure that you could get around the lack of a ritual site as a fallen with some effort. Failing that, you can just be darn sneaky at the event and avoid the romper squad.
But theres probably some way of *making* a ritual site, though it wouldnt be quiet or even discreet. Either way, if the ic hosts want us to be on a boat in the middle of an ocean for the event - and we turn up.. its our look out if we're hydrophobic. |
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| Illithidbix |
In theory yes, disguise, however in practice if you're a known Fallen it's incredibly hard as it just takes *one* person to recognise you OC once, and unless you jump them immediately, the whole game is given away. In theory you can hide in safe groups all event, however this isn't exactly fun. And that's not counting people firing of the Heaven's Truth Reveled cantrip for a laugh. When I created Khaniel, I deliberately developed his personality and attitude so that I could happily just sit in the Maelstrom pocket and chat philosophy even if I couldn't sensibly return to the mortal world. (And maybe go out and get drunk as a secondary if I got bored) As it is, it appears that PD did pay attention, and the rules change means that it's now possible to play a Fallen effectively when theres not a ritual site, without having to rely upon high level ming. |
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| Justice |
ding!Im sooooo proud of pd for the rule change, however it will attract more to the fallen eidolons and many many people will try and take the fallen back to its previous (God style gaming) which is terrible for everyone.This is where we will kick in... We as the fallen have decided to police new fallen players, if they take an action that directly effects the fun element of the game for others we will take them out... obviously after several warnings 
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| Persephon |
Now there's a noble idea. Certainly, the ramifications of the new rules remain to be seen in full - after all, this event somewhat sidestepped the mechanics due to a completely different ritual site issue. If we have more immortals (of all denominations) going "LOL I R IMORTEL SCRU U", it will simply be a case of rearranging the internal divisions. | ||||
| Switch |
to be honest we spent alot of time this weekend changing the rules of the game (i.c.) to make it a little more fun for everyone and also to keep people on their toes....how many people would have thought they would be getting hugs from demons whilst they were waiting to snot somthing bad for everyone
so we dont want a bunch of power gameing numpties to just come along and screw that up by just indiscriminatly slotting someone i think switch has earned a new name....even though he has only ever told the truth i think switch the deceiver is quite apt 
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| Illithidbix |
Woah guys, I'd be careful about coming across too elitist there.
Has there ever actually been a time when a Fallen player has seriously taken the piss with a rampage (i.e doing it just because they can?). I can recall Flail and Co having done them in the past, but this has always been *for a reason* and there has always been a specific target/point to the action. I've been playing Varas since the first year and I can't think of a single example of a Fallen problem player myself, all the ones I interacted with have been great. I've heard people whinning about the "unstoppable killing machines" that the Fallen, however this seems little more than whinny lammiehumpers who get upset when someone stepped on their lammiecastle. They also whine about "unstoppable powerblocs" that rarely last beyond a single event. As it is, I'm sure even with the rules change, any numpty who thinks that the being Fallen is "the path to win", will almost certainly give up after a few hours of not making it to the bar from their spawning site... However, as an IC principle, it makes perfect sense for us to be pretty self policing, we have enough difficulties as it is, we don't need one of our own making it even messier for us. I personally would find it very interesting if a new group of fallen came along who kept themselves unpacted to us. This topic change possibly requires a separate thread, however. |
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| ReadTheSmallPrint |
You see, that s the problem... you're thinking way too linnear... why not have fallen and loyal working together in a pact,
oh yeh that one... oops.. ermm well theres a way around that. I have several gentlmens agreements with various entities myself. There are more important things in the universe than stopping Flail from going to the loo... Few that are as funny, I will grant you. Yes Topic change, Pd hath already changed the rules, I can guess the drawback. Heheheh. The self Policing thing did worry me there... Its one thing to do that Ic, its another to be motivated to do it Oc. I mean if or when I see a Fallen Rampaging round like a proper Ishamiel, then I will happily.. ermm well get slotted at least once by it. But I do think we should have A) More Splinter Groups. B) A Union C) A bin in the pocket (which we are getting fank der lord) oh and D) Go go dancing Cheerleaders.. Regretted letting me know about where this board is yet? Dont worry.. give it time. |
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| Sho |
I,ve always teated the Fallen as People, and given thenm the chance to prove that they have Honour. So far they've shown more honour than a lot of loyals. If we had a large group of fallen who were pacted to one of the 5 great pacts, I('d probably go to Flail & co to help me Kick them over the Vast majority of loyals. They keep their word, they're competenti n a fight and will follow a battle plan. OK a lot of people think I'm a complete loon for that but My primary goal is not to splat the fallen. It's to save Souls, so long as they werent Cult-ing i dont care if they're in the 'strom or not. And as for people abyusing the rules, if you want to cause trouble then have ing a buttmunch being a Loyal can cause far more damage! | ||||
| Persephon |
As a matter of curiosity, does anyone know how the new rules will work? After all, we've only experienced them at an event that does have a ritual site, and for much of that time it wasn't so much a ritual site as a bloody great big rent. | ||||
| Justice |
hmmmms now imnot sure if this is ic or oc infobut i will post anyway; in order for the fallen to leave the mailstrom there are only 2 ways...1: To burn a soul i.e. you get a soul and it will burn a hole in the mailstrom for you to escape from. 2: Pull on a Thurgeic pact --------------> This will allow you to appear in a ritual circle.. If you dont have a pact you cant appear there and must use a soul to escape. Now this is where the rule change comes into play... If there is no ritual circle, the new rules state you may pull on a thurgeic pact but instead of the usual "you appear in a ritual circle" you appear where PD tell you to appear and there lieth the change... OC info here...
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| Requiem |
Re: hmmmms now imnot sure if this is ic or oc info
2 ways as far as the rulebook goes... I say no more. |
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