| Archive for purgatory.myfreeforum.org Maelstrom LRP Forum for Eidolons |
| Illithidbix |
Putting the boot in, or holding back?Sorry for yet another cross post with rule7, but like the other posts, this issue is particularly directed at the residents here (who may or may not be less whinny or uninformed than the average rule7ite)It is a response to an post Tree made. http://forums.rule7.co.uk/FindPost22730.aspx Basically it is a recommendation for the Churches and Loyal (and pretty much everyone else) to stop kicking in the Fallen and Undead everytime they become even remotely visible and to allow them the chance to actually roleplay their characters occasionally. Otherwise with the current rate of retirements, very soon there won't be any left in the system, leaving the utterly crap situation of winning by default and OC frustration rather than IC action. This is a very good point. This issue is one of the most awkward things about my current character. Whilst of course want to smite the fallen (I believe that fact isn't too FOIP...) I also want the players of my IC enemies to enjoy the conflict as much as I do, right up until it's conclusion. Because you guys rock, and my game wouldn't be as much fun without you. As the current situation of a very active war stands, there are political reasons why it has become as it is, with certain groups really putting the boot in as opposed to (IMO) the relative tameness in the first two years. As it is, I find the current (apparent) one sidedness far less fun than the earlier stage. I may regret this comment next event of course... 
I'm not a fundamentally competitive person. I take the position that LARP is fundamentally a game, and that the reason you play a game is that it is fun. Hence the most important thing in LARP is to have fun, and that fun should be in someway mutual. I don't want to enjoy myself at someone else's expense. The fact that there have been so many recent retirements from many prominent Fallen and Undead characters has been very noticeable, and from my conversations with them OC, I can really understand why constantly turning up and dying in literally under a minute without getting a chance to roleplay your character can be boring, frustrating and ultimately not worth continuing. The fact that I once counted five out of six of the daemons I made a point of describing in the book of Varas have retired (or suspected of being retired) is pretty depressing, as they where some of the coolest characters in the history of Maelstrom. Whilst the sneaking, hiding etc side of being the badguy can be very fun however for some people who signed up with the Fallen to be badass and get to stomp around in awesome kit, I can see the idea of pretending to be someone else all event and not talking to everyone for fear of saying the wrong thing to the wrong person and blowing your cover would get very boring. Some bastard constantly firing off MASS DETECT spells wouldn't make it easier either. Hense it's always a worry everytime I righteously smite my enemy that I will make their event that much less fun, Hence I am very tempted to lay off at times (sometimes I even do by allowing Varas to be distracted by something else) However obviously different people have different idea of what exactly makes a LARP (or any other game) fun. Some people seem to like the idea of Maelstrom being a relatively benign environment with space for everyone to progress towards their goals and enjoy the interaction between themselves and many other interesting and well developed characters, other think the more full of bloody conflict and danger, the better. Many somewhere in between the two. You can't work out the most utilitarian method of ensuring fun for everyone, as you can't cater for everyone. From what I've experienced LARP is often at its most fun when it's at it's most immerse and you really get into your character. And nothing brings out your character more than having an awesome conflict with another character which results in consequences and events that neither of you possibly expected, all achieved purely through IC action (hense I think Maelstrom rocks so much). In such a way holding back IC for OC worrying about the other person not having fun would lessen the enjoyment for both parties. So I really don't want to compromise my character and his beliefs, his principles and his goals because I'm worried that my actions might make someone's event less fun. And as it is, I suspect that my IC enemies don't want me to either. Ultimately no one wants a crappy lukewarm opponent, who might make a shot at you if they feel it probably won't make a difference, you want an enemy who will give as good as you do. And nothing makes you feel like you've done your job properly that an enemy REALLY trying to splat you. And it is, I don't think the hardcore desire to smite the Fallen (or your Favoured Enermy of choice) on sight is mutually exclusive with speaking to your enemies. Every battle is made that much better by a brief (or not so brief) exchange of insults about who exactly is in the right and better, in as an open and dramatic fashion as possible before you both charge at each other. Fortunately Maelstrom also offers plenty of ways of having a nice chat with your enemies when one party has kicked the shit out of another, indeed the incapacitation and debilitation rules seem designed for it. Fundamentally I think a good guideline is to give your enemies the opportunity to roleplay in some fashion whilst also not wanting to hold back because of OC worries. Anyone can go out and kill their political/cultural/ideological/religious enemy, however it's so much better when you piss them off first. What do you (esp the Fallen players, and potential Fallen players) think? |
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| Ezhno Ohanzee |
I personally think the climate will change for the better this year. Last two events it was a case of *pop* templars *Splat* for the Fallen. Now we have a ritual site at events.... and hopefully the feeling will stay the same of having site at events it will be better.
Currently as I know of there are only three Fallen I know of still playing. this is hardly the mob of fallen that went after Varas at Shenanigans. Perhaps, the roleplaying POV could be adjusted slightly to think the obvious Fallen are those that can be watched. If your constantly smiting fallen then they will eventually just materialize in some pokey village and kill/soulbind the inhabitants.... How bout rather than constantly smiting them, follow them, EVERYWHERE. be a constant thorn in their side rather than a big knacky annoying hammer. I can imagine Justice's response to Varas rather than hitting him just following him everywhere (then killing anyone he talks to, obviously evil evil cultists....) |
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| admin |
I think Darwin would have something to say about who plays Fallen and undead.
It has had a harsh selection process, and I like Theresa (I think) love and neigh thrive in the enviroment of universal Hatred, being the oh so much more of an underdog, the wins are so much sweeter, with the tabel racked against you. If I dont succeed, well that was a no brainer, if I do manage to inch forward a little then it was all me, I have fought through the adversity and still managed to defeat my foes. Playing the character I do has given me quite an emotional roller coaster, not many things in real life still make me feel like a 10 yearold on the night before Christmas, when things are going right I find it hard not to let out a girly squeal of delight. Things go wrong of course otherwise all of you would be kissing my feet as you entered the event or be smote on the spot. And that can seem pretty low and despondancy looms large, and in a rash moment I might mention retirering and starting again. But I never make rash judgements and I never agree withthem in the morning. So in essence after that, I relish the chance to win as the underdog, bring it on. Yes I'm a competetive person, and I like winning, but not more than playing and not at someone elses expence. From my perspective leave it, players who like adversity will come, and we will attract those who enjoy a difficult and challenging game, dont hold back don't restrict you pallet of vile religious fanatasism and paint me a masterpiece,and I hope to deface it at least, slash it down take a dump on it and burn it, sprinkling the ashes in a polluted fish pond, to be eaten by fish with hideaous deseases at best. (Oh and just incase you haven't guessed or I havent told you I run this forum for the technically challenged Vengence, and myname is Dog  )
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| Aestar |
It is all about perception. There wasn't a mob of fallen after Varas at Shenanigans - there were six of us (and then from the second wave onwards, both of which I didn't actually *fight* in anyway, five). But it seemed like an unstoppable juggernaut of death at the time - enough that the rest of the system went 'eeeek!' That's what I love about maelstrom. Five characters in the right situation can change the world. |
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| Primus |
Well, as a Pure Eidolon I find it great fun when priests attack me. I've been banished, chopped into pieces or 'made-fallen' more times than I can recall. Explaining "no - I CAN'T fall because I'm Pure" or "yes, I enjoy getting attacked because it gives merchant worshipers something to shoot at thus expending darkpowder thus expending money thus encouraging work thus..." (neither of which is FOIP anymore) is a hoot.
I say put the boot in. I look forward to it. From the non-Fallen POV it makes no difference to me... I can see how some Fallen would end up retiring their characters |
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| Bacon |
See, my IC motivation for putting the boot in 100% of the time is that mercy is a sin. OOC I think this is advice that is applicable to all larp games ever.
I'd rather lose horribly than win because someone let me win. The game is fun because we respect our adversaries. We respect their ability to defeat us in spite of the fact that we are doing our best to prevent them. We owe it to each other to maintain this high standard, to present a challenge, and roleplay our asses off so that whoever eventually wins will know that they won fair and square. The game has so far been stacked against the fallen. The lack of ritual sites, the spawn-camping of the ritual sites we have had, the OOC hostility. For me, these problems haven't anything to do with the IC holy war, but have been a result of the game mechanics, or players taking the piss. We owe it to all of our fellow players not to take the piss. This fact is so obvious that it is enshrined in the rules of the game... However, I don't think we should be looking for IC justification to show any more mercy than our characters would. We can save friendly fellow-feeling for after time out, or OOC areas. I'm going to ask if I can install tea and coffee making equipment in the Maelstrom to make life easier OOC, but my character isn't planning to make life easier for anyone. I firmly believe it's possible to roleplay your unending hatred of your adversary while still behaving honourably, and I expect nothing less of my foes. |
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| Aestar |
Now *that* is a good idea. Tea and coffee making equipment in the maelstrom...*yes*.
Anyways, I think we're all on the same wavelength here. Play your character to the hilt. Play your character as your character and remain as your character. It's perfectly possible to still be courteous and respectful towards other players OOC while playing your character, even if IC you're a bastard to them. |
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| Bacon |
Cool, I'll see if Matt P will let me. I've got one of those gas stoves, and one of those stove-top espresso machines. If we put another table in the OC area, we can fit a kettle and a teapot in, no problem. It does get a bit cold in hell sometimes. |
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| Ezhno Ohanzee |
Re-reading my own post, I think I wasn't being clear. I'm all for putting the boot in, however, I think there are better ways to do than *POP! SMACK!! SPAWN! POP!* Then again, thats really an IC methodology. | ||||
| Aestar |
I agree. It's not the same as the IC hosts to an event being bloody-minded OOC and saying 'we're not sending out IC invitations/directions to anyone who isn't our group', but in much the same way I think we can OOC compromise (and give our fellow roleplayers the chance to turn up) while IC still being uncompromising.
I'm sure that, for example, if the XXXX XX XXX hosted an event they'd be prepared OOC to let the XXXXXXXXX XX XXX XXX XXXXX come along even though they are obviously enemies. You can come up with all sorts of amusing justifications and theories as to *why* you should invite everyone to a quarterly religious festival that you are hosting, and I don't think it's too much of a strain to extend this into 'being a bastard to your enemies *to their face* so you can see their reaction in person and enjoy their ineffectual ranting' |
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| Illithidbix |
Yes, I think this is possibly very true, and I also think one of the reasons people got very whinny about the Fallen is that was all that they tried. However, there is (unfortunately?) a damn good political reason behind the decision to attack an overt Fallen on sight, certainly more than a few zealots getting abit tetchy. I don't think it's overly FOIP to say, that if you let something as obvious as Flail walk around unopposed, it'll send the wrong impression to all the not-so-militant faithful out there. For some of the smiters at least it certainly wasn't the begining and the end of the stratergy for the war. Unfortunately it had the effect of being very effective, for entirely the wrong reason. |
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| Bacon |
Everyone knows that 'Pop-smack-spawn-pop' is not an effective method of dealing with Eidolons in the long term. However, in the short term it's always been effective so far, and therefore remains a popular choice. I'm hoping to change that IC, but it is something that I think needs to be changed IC. We just need to show people that not only does it not work, but that it has unpleasant consequences.
I don't agree with spawn-camping or slotting people before they've put their drink down, because I think these things are taking the piss. It's more a matter of OC courtesy than anything else, and like mugging on the path to the toilets, I think it is more bad manners than bad roleplay... |
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| Aestar |
That's an interesting way of phrasing it, and one that I agree with. It's not a question of being a good or bad roleplayer, I think it's all about being a courteous *player*. You don't have to march up to your enemies and inform them that in five minutes you're about to attack them, so would they care to put down any drinks that they are holding and present themselves to be killed - but at the same time perhaps spare a thought for the poor bastard who has spent two hours getting into kit just so he can have a conversation - and gets gunned down the moment he appears. | ||||
| Primus |
Agreed. There are 100% effective ways of stopping Fallen, but priests seem more interested in *POP! SMACK!! SPAWN! POP!* (which dosn't work long-term) rather than actually putting the work in.
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| Bacon |
I always give people fair warning that I'm coming for them the first time. Usually by marching up and screaming at them to surrender and face justice.
After they've had fair warning however, it's much more fun to come out of the goddamn walls when they least expect it. Saying that, even getting a battle ref to go in first and check that you aren't about to spill drinks, fire or valuable props is not 100% effective, so I only tend to do this to OOC mates who won't hate me forever if I inadvertantly combat roll through their table and spill flaming wax everywhere. With the fallen, there's less of a problem with unexpected combat, and more of a problem with ceasless continuous combat until you're really bloody fed up with it. In this situation I think it's less important to worry about fair warning, and more important not to devote your entire game to searching every single tent for fallen eidalons 100% of the time. If you kill them on sight, fair enough, it's what your character would do. If you spawn-camp the ritual circle for hours in order to make sure you see and kill all of them as soon as they arrive, it's maybe time to wonder if your character shouldn't have better things to do... |
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| Illithidbix |
Interestingly I think Spawn camping, site purging and similar persistent and direct action was the sort of “putting the boot in” behavior that I started this thread about and hence my reluctance to actually do it for any sizable degree.
Guarding a post for 6 hours really isn't an unreasonable IC action for many military characters, of course OC very few people actually have the stamina or boredom threshold to do it, gate guarding being one of the least fun activities in LARP. The idea that Ritual sites should be in someway constantly under gaurd to stop nasties getting out, and naughties doing shonky magics is not too unreasonable either (and certainly better OC than just not bothering to have one.) However it is crap for the permanent guard to just splat anything that appears esp if it's spent the last hour getting into kickass kit. I don't want to be merciful IC for OC reasons, but I want to give them a chance to at least roleplay their characters. Perhaps an IC justification would be "give them enough rope to hangthemselves with..." |
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| admin |
The second Flembic event had an interesting ritual site control on it, they put a cage over the riual site and occasionally posted guards.
This led to some intersting covert actions als the best of naff fantasy movies, distract the stupid guards and the villans can get on with their evil plans
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| Ezhno Ohanzee |
I heard, and hence the validity of such a larp rumour could not be confirmed. Was that the cage if it was able to lifted OOC then it could be lifted IC, which, is very good, however didn't do what the hosts wanted to acheive. |
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| admin |
how we got aroud the caged ritual circle is I'm afraid foip, but it was non the less an interesting point of role play
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| Iasus |
I'm expecting the next event to be quite interesting for everyone involved with the holy war game.
Re Spawn - smite - pop (wait 5 mins, rinse and repeat): Yah, it's irritating for fallen/undead players who appear and then get ganked a ew seconds later, but it encourages interesting/inventive styles of play in the evil people. I'm not sure what balance to strike between crusading Templarage and making sure fallen/undead players don't have their event ruined. Thing is, I can't really justify holding back - I have to open fire/charge when I see a daemon, because to not do so would not be role-playing my character properly. In some ways, we're a victim of our own success - the fanatical crusading of those of us on the "Good" side of the Holy War game has driven the fallen underground where they're hard to get at, and has caused some excellent players to retire their characters. I don't really have a suggested solution, just my observations. I'm still finding it immensely fun, but I do occasionally worry about fallen player's enjoyment of the event when they get ganked nearly every 5 mins. I'd really like to know what people like Theresa think of the way the game is panning out for them viz. repeated gankings. Ias |
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| admin |
May I say that for all the 'gankings' I have had, they have been deserved, I play my way and you play your way. Would you like us to play any softer were we to have the upper hand?
Would you rather we didn't hack you to peices were we to get the chance, I know it's not quite the same, it perminent for you and less so for us. I for one don't want you to consider my OOC feeling while your IC, as I will not for yours, OOC come find us and have a beer, and we can talk about the event, but I chose to play who I do, and I know the ramifications of what I play, if I didn't like it I wouldn't play it anymore. (Oh and were not bad guys were just misunderstood  )
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| Aestar |
It's difficult, I'll say that. And can be rather frustrating if you just want the chance to strut your stuff and *be present* in all your scary, demonic glory. Having said that, we've had to deal with it, and we have done (well, some of us have). You can't just wander around in full view anymore. You have to hide. You have to get devious, underhanded and cunning. You have to lurk in the shadows, subvert, whisper sweet nothings and dark temptations into the ears of the receptive. Combined with the lack of ritual sites, if you're caught, it's game over for that event. It keeps the fear factor strong, even if it does make us feel like rather wet, whiny pushovers who regularly have to flee when the faithful get too close. I'll be honest - I much, *much* preferred things how they were at Rememberance. That event has gone down as, (and probably will continue to do so) my absolute best LRP event ever. If I could, at the press of a button, revert maelstrom to how it was then? I probably would do. We'd have far more fallen players (and more enthusiastic ones, at that) for one thing. However. How things are now is the result of that percieved success. The demons were allowed to walk around for an event, and pretty much everyone got more than a little jumpy. Maelstrom's political situations come and go, and while I don't think things will ever quite reach Rememberance levels again (we're always going to have to keep our heads down) I think this year has potential for things to swing in a new and interesting direction. I would *never* begrudge someone for playing their character. Playing your character pretty much *always* benefits the integrity of the system as a whole, regardless of whether it makes life difficult for certain players in the short term. Basically: Please, please keep playing Heinrich as Heinrich. He's awesome. It's great having such a fabulous selection of enemies to choose from - and if it really does *stop* being fun, there are plenty of other possible characters out there to play. I do get the overwhelming feeling that we should perhaps just put up or shut up - the game has changed and we have to change our expectations along with it. |
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| Illithidbix |
Curiously I've spent most of Varas' nine events long life in this kind of situation. As it is, back before I was famous and before I really knew the DNF, when the daemons and undead looked far stronger than us, or at least generally a “ currently undefeatable problem”. We simply avoided kicking off and attracting the attention of the daemons (with perhaps one exception...) and instead waged a quiet cold war with lots of information gathering and research. I do wonder if Flail and co actually had any idea who I was and what I was doing, aside perhaps “some Merchant priest”. In fact, I only acted so openly at Remembrance (and got slapped for it) because of a certain someone's actions. So in that vein of thought, if you guys had the upper hand, I'd expect the militant faithful to keep their heads down, and generally wait until they're in a position to strike back effectively (Zealot doesn't always equal idiot.) However as it is, the War is at the Hot War stage and being the sort of “It is better to die in Exaltation than live in Damnation!” attitude I don't see it cooling down anytime soon and if you guys got the appropriate amount of power then I'd fully expect you to splat those ranty bastards who you recognise as causing you all the trouble for the past months, particularly if you recognize them enough to know their names! Everyone who chooses to get involved in the Holy War side of Maelstrom should know and accept the risks of character death (even immortals), it's the hottest part of Maelstrom. The fact it's such a knife edge is one of the reasons it's so fun. Frankly I expected Varas to die almost a year ago at Remembrance when I got arrested by Flail, upon that realisation I decided to cause as much trouble for him and the rest of the daemons on my way out as I could, four events (plus a plot event I ran..) on, I'm still doing that. So basically to every Fallen, Undead, Cultist, native or anyone else with a Varas-shaped grievance. Bring it bitches! |
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| Justice |
Putting boot in...As a general rule i am overtly fallen running around with Vengence. It does work although i do get slotted and dropped a lot of the time...
"I always give people fair warning that I'm coming for them the first time. Usually by marching up and screaming at them to surrender and face justice." Bacon i love it when you talk about me in this way its cute 
Too add bacon and i have had a couple of gobbing off sessions, she has a far more dangerous bark than a bite lol So now i have a question i want to put to the group here, i will give a little description of the scenario and then you guys can talk about it
I was walkng along in disguise with my hood up, i was heading for a camp. One of the loyals was walking past me, I decided not to do anything about it and carried on walking as i was in disguise... I felt a sword literally tap me on the shoulder and a little cry of single... He was not sure it was me.. I know this for a fact... Now i took this blow as a hit and decided to run because it was something i thought i should do... The question is this... When is a hit an actual hit? I have thought about this a lot and i am coming to the conclusion that if someone haplessly taps me with a sword next time im not going to count it as a hit.. If on the other hand i am welted with a little force i will count it and react accordingly, what do you think?? Varas always gives me a good welting and so do many of my advarsaries this one on the other hand was a little cagey and has been playing on my mind...
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| Aestar |
If someone makes contact but overly pulls their blow, I think you should assume it is a hit - after all, it's just a phys-rep for a horrible chunk of steel slicing through your flesh. Be thankful that you're not getting twatted in the face by an unpulled blow!
I think if you're going *full tilt* with someone and they clip your elbow/finger or brush across your shoulder, then it's usually possible come to a concensus regarding whether it counts as a hit or not through reasonably IC chatter (*sharp intake of breath* "That was close..." etc). I'd certainly hate to defeat an opponent by clipping them on the elbow or finger, and demand that they ignore such ridiculousness. However, if someone crept up behind me and gently brushed me with their weapon making a damage call, I'd obviously prefer that to having my world explode into ow death ow pain from being smacked in the back of the head. |
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| Justice |
my personal belief is it was a blow to see if i was who i was but tbh i was thinking that i shouldnt have taken it.. it was literally a tap... if someones going to attack me its my expectation they actually attack me.. pulling blows is one thing but a tap hmmms... although i see your point and from that perspective i was right to take the hit but im not sure that was his perspective...
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| Bacon |
Also, as much as I am playing a bloody angel steeped in the weltering gore of a thousand violent murders...
I'm an accountant. You are never going to get a solid smack from one of my weapons, because I trained with the pen rather than the sword. I'm afraid a gentle little tap along with a damage call is about the best I can do. If it helps, I tend to aim for big hefty damage calls to make up for it
As to my bark being worse than my bite, I actually prefer a 'cold war' approach to fighting Demons. After all, if I go about smacking them down it means I'll get stuck in a tent with them for the next half hour, whereas if we just bitch, we can go our seperate ways and I can get some proper work done. Basically, I prefer reaction to action, which I think is perfectly justifiable for a character devoted to the principles of vengeance
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| Illithidbix |
Without wanting to sound elitist Me and Theresa are from the local York Uni Shadovald club LARP and it's the philosophy of our group that the three objectives of LARP fighting should be be:
1)being safe 2)Looking good, with suitably cinematic and heroic blows. 3)Winning. In that order. I really enjoy LARP combat, it's one of the few physical activities I'm any good at. However one thing I've come to realise is that roleplay is as much a part of the combat as in any other part of LARP. We're not hitting each other with steel swords, we're tapping each other with foam covered sticks pretending that they are mighty-triple-consecrated-blades of steely death. If you leave out the roleplay, we end up playing a game of foam stick tag. Two things here: 1)Pulled blows 2)Tappy fighting styles. I know a few LARPers believe in HARDCORE! Full on fighting where they expect to out of every battle with bruises and bleeding. I however don't, and I assume most other people probably don't as well. Sometimes accidents happen, however it shouldn't be the norm. I've got to admit, I'm not the safest LARP fighter at times (as Theresa can testify...), and if during one of my outbursts of smittage I twat you harder than you'd like, do tell me. If someone can make a massive swing with a 5' sword which looks like it should cleave me in two, however upon actual contact it's a mere tap, then bloody well done to them. As for tappy blows. Unfortunately being a large fest event the standard of fighting will be determined by the lowest common denominator, people have very different standards of what is/is not legitimate fighting within the safety standards set by PD. In such a way, it's always an idea to take the hit by someone you don't know OC, no matter how tenuous it seemed as you're in danger of being declared a cheater otherwise. This is esp. the case since Maelstrom also attracts a lot of people who haven't had any LARP combat experience before. As it is, I have noticed some truly appalling fighting at maelstrom at times. [Rant] Due to the Renaissance setting, theres a lot of poncy Rapier fencing style fighting at Maelstrom. Having seen a few people fight with whippy tallows rapiers which they somehow manage to flick at their opponents with such vigor that the blade literally bends to right-angles before whipping past the defences. Frankly there are more than a few people I really hope I don't ever end up in a fight with since it looks to be a utterly unpleasant experience. The one-second-rule works in so far as it reduces the number of drumrolling ambi-dagger-monkeys, unfortunately it encourages another crap combat technique or walking towards you opponent, tapping them with your sword repeatedly calling your damage call every second until you take enough hits to fall over. For this reason we have taken some of our newbies to maelstrom, pointed out a few fights and told them “that's how NOT to LARP fight”, it's snobbish but it's not how I want to play the game. [/Rant] As it happens, despite this, all the Fallen I've actually ended up in a fight against have been pretty good. At the end of the day, I think we should make the battles between the “Armies of Righteousness” and and the “Forces of Darkness” to look like something suitably dramatic and impressive, not flicky tappy death-tag. Esp since with Eidolons death in combat is very rarely the end to the character. I'm perfectly happy for an opponent to disregard any crappy hits that I might inflict, be they intentional on my part or not. I hope they wouldn't feel the same way if I did the game Of course in doing so I run the risk of having my character die because I wanted to make a fight look good whilst my opponent was content with tapping me as many times as possible. Similarly I'm fine with the prospect of Varas being splatted because I wanted to make a fight look good, rather than spam people with tappy blows whilst screaming my damage call of ming, esp if my enemies where similarly dedicated into making the battle looking and feeling like a epic combat. |
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| Bacon |
Alas, some of us are just lame at fighting... (accountant!)
I've tried martial arts, stage fighting lessons, and eight years of larp combat experience. Still lame at fighting. I'm not going to not play combat characters just because my physrep is lame at fighting, because I can use soft skills to be combat-effective. As much as everyone would like larp to look good, we can't just throw out all the ugly people
Anyhow, the discussion seems to be moving away from Putting the Boot in, to a discussion on hard-skill combat. Should we start another thread to discuss that, or accept the thread rot and move on? |
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| Aestar |
Accepting the thread rot:
I'm an awful fighter. Despite three years of about four hours combat every sunday, I regularly get beaten without even getting a hit in on people because I'm too damn defensive in a fight. However, as you say you can overcome combat crapness by having friends, having ming or having the element of surprise. Getting the drop on your enemy is by far the best way to win a fight. |
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| Illithidbix |
Mmm. Tasty thread rot.
Gah! Say one critical comment about something and every woman within a five mile radius immediately takes it upon themselves to apply it to them. Stop it both of you! As it is, I've never seen the Blood-soaked Baconator use anything beyond an oversized fruit knife and as it happens, in Lies case (and Flail's for that matter), the unstoppable march of doom actually works, and makes perfect sense for the characters. It looks genuinely scary marching towards your target ignoring everyone else frantically tapping away. Also, you both you and nick use short weapons which you make a point of actually slashing with, as opposed to tapping people with a bastard sword or polearm. As for Theresa, *Slap* Anyone who's beaten Nathan (Mardocai) in single combat with equal stats can no longer ever justify calling themselves crap. And do I have to bring up those embarrassing Aestar/Varas "practice duels"(OC...) at discourse, where you almost beat me using our characters actual stats? |
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| Aestar |
I'm still crap though =)
Anyway, I was just reading rule7's combat styles thread and despite bracing myself for the inevitable storm of pointless circular arguments, I was shocked all over again. Truth be told, while I *love* fighting in LRP, if I had the choice I'd probably go for 'not'. This doesn't mean I'm somehow a 'better' roleplayer than someone who prefers to resolve their disputes through combat (in fact it probably means I'm one of those awful bottlers who plague the system). But it does mean that I'd much rather get my teeth into a situation with banter and thinly-veiled-threats, lots of shouting/manipulation, or even quiet glares and stares. If I have to fight (and depending on the system/character, this happens reasonaby often) I'll throw myself fully into it, but I much prefer the build up to a confrontation to the 'confrontational' part. This extends into combat itself. When it happens, it's an extension of roleplaying. Just as one talks as appropriate for one's character, one fights as is appropriate for them. If they're a poncy cowardly git, then they'll act appropriately. If they're a heroic shining knight with a two handed sword (gee, which do I prefer), they'll fight like siegfried from soul calibur (well, try and look like it, at least). I don't view 'roleplaying your character's personality through combat' as holding back and letting your opponent win anymore than I view 'not religiously chasing every piece of plot presented to you' or 'not taking an inappropriate skill because it would combine awesomely with another skill'. One shouldn't be afraid to put the boot in in terms of 'don't let OOC trepidation/apathy sway your IC decision-making process' but I think that's different from 'winning at all costs'. |
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| Bacon |
Hey, we're not miffed at you criticising crap fighters because we're girls, we're miffed because we're crap fighters. Which is also not because we're girls.
Do not make the feminist angry. You will not like me when I am angry
I agree with Theresa that the difference between putting the boot in and taking the piss is precisely at the line of 'winning at any cost'. I consider larp combat fun, but not the most fun. |
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| Illithidbix |
Actually, I was referring to the "feminine tendency" to assume that they are crap at something when they're not (as opposed to the masculine tendency to assume they're awesome).
Having had my arse kicked by a few girls in my time LARPing (including one of the above posters), I'm in no hurry to proclaim that they're crap at fighting. However this may be dangerously close to feeding the feminist, so I shall stop digging. I shall yield before your self-derogatory self-assessments, despite the empirical evidence to the contrary. |
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| Nath |
Well, once the fallen and undead have been dealt with the churches can move onto dealing with worshippers of false idols (or more likely will turn on each other in religious war). |
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| Nath |
Choice of weapons is a definate fashion statement. I concur that the short weapons that Flail and Lies use have been effective (especially in her case). Personally I went for a 7 foot spear / lance because I wanted the traditional look (and happened to have the phy rep lying around) and wanted to make sure of the reach advantage against all those people carrying one handed swords. I also tried a 'dire mace' (doubled ended war mace, 5 1/2 foot), since it seemed a smith eidolon really should use some hammer related weapon (and it's partly the inspriation for my soul symbol). I also carry a Spartha (long gladius) but that is more as a posing weapon. |
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| Justice |
OMG!!!Did you just say once the fallen have been dealt with?? oh dear your in for a huge shock matey boy I very much think it will be the other way round
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| Illithidbix |
I'm interested in when people consider it. Route to toilets (Don't take the piss when other people are trying to...) Bar related stuff (BEER CRIME!), which is always a bit awkward. Mostly it could be excused by the fact that even righteous zealots For me as well there is also that slightly awkward time for the first hour or so of time in (esp on the first night on Friday), as people rarely actually properly ready at exactly 6. Whilst theoretically attacking your enemy whilst half the group isn't time in is a good idea IC (get them whilst their separated), and arguably makes sense IC as a physrep for some of the group not reaching the gathering, most groups probably *should* arrive togeather. Same with the last hour or so before timeout, in particular the awkwardness of poisoning someone at the end. Any other taboo times? |
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| Bacon |
I'd be tempted to say 'No', but I am a staunch supporter of the 'surprise attack' school of larp combat, which holds that combat is less cool if you saw it coming...
Obviously there are safety constraints to consider, which you might think would be common sense. I still have a burn scar on my left foot from when Oli blundered through the Anaguma kitchen tent and upended a barbecue onto my foot, so I don't feel too patronising for stressing the dangers of combat in kitchens, restaurants and coffee houses. I'm also loath to attack IC tents which are also used OOC to keep real world stuff in. I felt very guilty sneaking into the Sons of Set's tent IC, only to find someone sleeping OOC in there. Oops! It's also a reason why I tend to avoid storming the larp hotel. IC tents are fair game, but OOC tents are private, and when they serve a dual purpose, I think OOC politeness takes precedent. I'm not sure what other circumstances I wouldn't hit someone in. One of the reasons I decided on the concept of an avenging angel was the assumption that I'd only ever be going after characters who had already started something, and consequently signalled their willingness to participate in violent roleplay
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| admin |
Lol, if your the person I heard of being seen off out of the tent by an undead in his boxers, you are totally absolved
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| Bacon |
I was in fact seen out of the tent by a very sleepy gentleman. However, it was too dark in there to see either the undead or the boxers. I feel somewhat cheated now
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| Sho |
Well I seem to fit inbetween the two extremes, I can and do do the reaper tappy tappy thing, although I use a Cutting Edge Basket hilt that has no want but keeps up with Tallows best, (Yay cutting edge) But i also tend to use a Daisho (pardon the pun) or a Zweihander where I can. I think a fair few of you have sen or felt me fight and I think I strike a good balance between ponce and Flange, If I dont plaese say so!
Sho |
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| veritastheeidolon |
I think the Zealous smiting of fallen is something new characters tend to do. I certainly took the bait at my first event.
Although the extremly faithful also manage it kudos to the groups at Corronation like the Spine of the World who camped out the ritual circle as much as possible because it's the kind of single-minded characters they played. However after a couple of events it sinks in that you've killed the same fallen 13 times today and it's not doing anything useful except from delaying them for another 5 minutes. However when a fallen did get through there tended to be a great deal of panic about where they ended up. On the other subject I tend to find that as an eidolon I'm much less motivated in a fight, knowing that death is a mild inconvenience which involves sitting down having a debate with possible Vieneese Swirls included (Thank you, they were lovely) makes winning a fight seem considerably less important than ensuring I'm hitting the right thing. Hmm... just rambling now |
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| Skaven Dave |
I fight less often than I'd like to in Maelstrom, as it's not entirely appropriate to the character. (though his common name does have the 'fill full of holes' connotation. Furthermore going off and putting on the full War Form takes about 20 minutes. Not ideal for a quick change in an emergency smite action.
I also have some training IRL with a Bastard Sword, so have developed some combat awareness, however, Riddle's sword is about a foot too short for my liking (but almost perfect for the character) and I hate fighting with a shield. (seriously thinking of getting a new sword next event) I feel that the trick to fighting as an Eidolon is not to fight defensively but offensively. Fear is optional, pain is optional, getting wounded/killed is an inconvenience only. Unfortunately, I'm a defensive fighter, and can rarely bring myself to strike the first blow in any system. Coronation saw me do more fighting in an event than usual (I hit a few mortals!) so to make up for it, Declaration saw me do no fighting whatsoever! Ritual camping. This event, that would have been hard to do, as the circle was so large, it could not have been completely cordoned off without a much larger force. I'd actually like to see larger ritual sites in future to reduce the encircling of the Fallen and completely anhialating them shortly after they arrive, allowing one or two to get away more often. Heck, You might find me more often in War Form at the next event. Watch out Will...
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| Justice |
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOT!!!!! | ||||
| Nath |
back on topic. . .
Personally I avoid putting the boot in on mortals as a first recourse. Ultimately I am more interested in the salvation of their mortal soul than petty worldly concerns. However, once someone is classed as a 'hardened enemy of God' who has no interest in turning back from the darkness, then there is no reason not to. Better to cut out the disease before it infects others. Combined with this is the classical (and smithite) notion of communal guilt. If a community sins, then the community bears the penalty for those sins (at least, if they continue to harbour the sinner). That said, all of this is secondary to the will of God. As a true loyal, I mindlessly and pointlessly attack those God has told me to. It's not my place to question orders, and if we can accomplish nothing else at least we continue to offer symbolic resistance to evil - being an eidolon is often about being a living symbol. |
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| charlemagne |
well dave. after this events dowtime is complete and the results are in. i may need riddl's warformed presence. from what i've heard that shrine i was given might be the target of a group who want to claim it and consecrate it to a new world god | ||||
| Requiem |
Auriel has been heard to say on several occasions that no, really, the most effective weapon he has is harsh language.
But I will still undertake to put the boot in repeatedly and hard, from behind if at all possible, whenever I am required to. On balance, I prefer slaying heretics to slaying blasphemers and demons, but that's only because it's easier. |
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| Persephon |
I also suffer from not beating people up quite as much as I'd like OOC; part of this is because of the fence I'm sitting on IC, but most of it is because Persephon is a keen advocate of incisive logic over incisive steel (and he often convinces me, damn him). | ||||
| Sho |
I dont attack from behind. In a Battle i may attempt a flanking maneuver but otherwise no. I know of at Least one Eidolon whom I dropped for being a dirty lying backstabber.... And as for the puuting the Boot in aspect...I'm here to Save the World. 
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| Glic |
i don't fight overmuch in game as Glic is more of a talker but when i do fight i tend to try to be a dirty stab them in the back/use long range weaponry type. anything else is just foolish and might result in me getting hit...as if!! | ||||
| Requiem |
It's not backstabbing, it's tactics. Not my fault if the enemy didn't think to look in my direction. | ||||
| Illithidbix |
Khaniel has a similar attitude, although in many respects it's more down to the fact that every moment I spend calling "Single" I could instead spend making a snarky, gobby comment. |
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| Kaspam |
Personally I go for the talking over smiting route due to being a bit rubbish at larp combat; it was enough for me not to trip over my robes at the last event. Plus tbh the scythe is for show really, it doesn't work too well as an effective larp weapon. So saying that I am hoping I can produce more outfits to change into, which might involve slightly more stabby iterations. | ||||
| Truth |
I might try actual combat a little if I can find some stuff to wear that goes with my theme =/ In theory I should be at least O.k at it.
That has nothing to do with the actual main topic. Um.... |
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| Wychboy |
I haven't got into combat yet, and probably won't for the next couple of events. Partially because I like maelstrom so much because you CAN get by without violence, and partially because at the moment the vehicle I'm using to get to maelstrom and back won't fit my quarterstaff. While I could use other weapons, I love my quarterstaff too much, and it would feel like I was cheating on it to use anything else.. Except perhaps my dagger.
Thats a thought actually... last event we had some space behind the maelstrom - might be a good area to get in some weapons practice for those who don't usually fight, if they should be compelled to at some stage. I'm sure I wouldnt be the only one willing to spar/give tips. |
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| Persephon |
Excellent idea! Certainly, I'm always up for a scrap during time-out, but if we're feeling exceptionally bored IC (har har) we could always do a quick 'simulation' within the adjoining pocket. After all, the Maelstrom = the Matrix. |
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| Aestar |
So...much...joy... 'We're gonna need swords...lots of swords...' 'Persephon! I need an exit!' 'There's been a glitch in the Maelstrom...' |
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| Sho |
But its perfectly ic for you call 'Single' Its curt cutting remark that holds no real fear for those who have any true grasp of the situation....
Sorry dude I couldnt resist that gag... Sho |
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| Persephon |
And so the slew of subtle (and unsubtle) IC references will begin. Loyals get Agent quotes, Fallen get Morpheus ones. |
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| Aestar |
In which case, I reserve "Stop trying to hit me, and hit me!". It seems vaguely appropriate... | ||||
| Fanor |
And Natives? |
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| Persephon |
When have Natives ever fitted into any equation? |
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| Justice |
oh i dont know maybe them being the E in E=MC2.... (Dont have a squared button)
M = Loyals and C2 = Fallen
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction
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| Sho |
can I take V quotes instead? IOt sort of fits sho better.... | ||||
| Aestar |
V quotes are constructed entirely of awesome and hence yes. | ||||
| Persephon |
Et ca! In its entirety, an evocative extraterrestrial, an edifice, existent for eternity enshrouded in ectoplasm. Elevated beyond the everyday, erudite in its experiences, it enacts its everlasting efforts: encouraging epiphany from the existing enlightened, or enshrining for evil ends. Standing at extremes: earnest, egotistical, enthusiastic, emotional or equitable. Even so, every ego seems equivalent, earning exaltation through the extracted essence of each mortal. Eloquently I evince your expectations, but enough with these extraneous epithets: easier to be exact. You may call me an eidolon. |
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| Fanor |
Are you like... a religious person? | ||||
| Aestar |
Wow. You, sir, are something else entirely. That was impressive. Now try doing it on the fly
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